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Our thoughts out loud

 Posted on December 12, 2016      by Anna
 7

Ever wondered what we sound like? What it would be like to be a fly on our wall? Now you can, as we decided it would be fun to let you in behind the scenes to hear our thoughts and conversations from the ground up.

We promise to put the bullshit button away and let you in to hear our musings as we put content together.

In this conversation we talk about some of the stumbling blocks we keep seeing in new photographers’ work. We try to understand them from our observations of photography, past and present, and try to figure out the best way to present it in a teaching environment. Follow our journey and join in as we share our thoughts out loud.

 

Of course we can’t wait to hear from you, and the question we ask you is:

“What are your steps to take a photo?”

Anna: “Ok, so we were having a conversation earlier about our photography courses, and essentially what a new course for us would look like.  And what we see are the beginning mistakes of the photographers that we have seen progressing. And I was saying, one of the biggest mistakes that I see is in composition in new photographers, there is a really big gap between when they first start to then semi-professional level and you see the composition of things in tabletop been laid out on the table, and all of the items in the photograph may be well lit, maybe correctly placed, correct colours, correct use of props, but yet nothing in that image draws me in. Everything on that images seems separate islands to each other, they don’t seem connected in any way.

And I find those images really hard to critique. Because when people are asking me ‘what’s wrong with this image, or how would you do it?‘, it’s really hard because I’m not there to reach in and take everything off the table and then start again. And that’s what I would do if I was there, but that advice obviously isn’t great to give beginners as it undermines their confidence. But without physically being there and taking everything off the table, and then placing every single item back on the table one by one, which is what I would do. Reposition it and, see what relationship each  item had to the other and how they looked together and how they look apart. Without visually seeing that it is hard to give a critique when I see an image that I see and just think, everything about that is… clinical.”

Filipe (with the mother of all colds and speaking through his nose): “Yup!”

 

This is how a typical conversation starts with us, and although you can’t see it – rest assured there was a cup of tea on the table… okay, you can probably hear it every now and again.

We often see areas that photographers are struggling with and we would like to address it – which then sparks these types of discussions. Of course we meander around and talk about all sorts of other fun stuff, but…

…who could miss this years amazing breakdown of the 2016 Time Cover photograph of Donald Trump by photographer Nadav Kander? You can follow Nadav Kander on twitter here and see what he has to say about his own work.

We also talk about the history of the colour red: here is a fascinating article from the Guardian that talks about why it is the oldest colour and its significance.

This was the image discussed that was created from the light shaft first…

0001_mcg_20150822_pantry_c_by_mcgunnmedia

Aside from this though we also would like to throw you, the listener, a question – we want to hear / read your voice in this discussion, so this is our question to you:

“What are your steps to take a photo?”

Please leave your answers in the comments below. Feel free to add as much detail as possible in your reply. We value your voice and draw inspiration from your views.

Thank you so much for reading, listening and joining in with what we hope will be an ongoing discussion.

7 Comments for Our thoughts out loud

Lily

These days I tend to ruminate on an idea for days, sometimes weeks before I finally pick up the camera to make the photo. Coming up with ideas is my biggest challenge when I am wanting to use my DSLR, followed by coming up with the right light for that shot. But here’s something interesting: I find myself taking more and more images with my cell phone these days but don’t necessarily publish them.

Good topics you two discussed.

Reply

    Anna

    Lily,
    Thanks for taking the time to listen and to comment! Where do your ideas come from when you are searching around? Do you look at pinterest or are you looking at real life inspirations that come your way?
    I love that you follow the story first and then follow up with the technical to support it.
    Your comment with regards to Cell phones is really interesting, do you reach for it because it is a quicker tool to grab?

    I’m so pleased that you said on facebook that you also had observed this in your students, its interesting to see that these are clearly beginning stages of learning the art of making images.

    Anna

    Reply

      LIly

      I get inspired by photos I come across randomly throughout my day. Sometimes someone else’s work on Instagram (like yours) or sometimes an ad in a magazine will be enough to make me want to try something similar. I don’t have much time these days to pursue photography like I used to so inspiration comes in spurts.

      I grab the cell phone because that’s usually the camera I have handy. Plus I really like to see what the image can look like on that screen before taking it a step further and grabbing the Nikon and possibly lights to set up something more interesting. Call it digital sketching.

      I do like what Don said below. I’ve always admired that he can visualize an image from start to finish like he does. I’ve never been able to do that. I have to play around with the subject and setup for awhile before it comes together in my head and even then, sometimes the image doesn’t reveal itself until I pop it into Camera Raw.

      Great discussion!

      Reply

Don Giannatti

I take your question at face value that we are not talking about all that is thought about up to the point of taking the photo. I spend more time analyzing what I want to shoot than actually shooting it.

First I make a conscious effort to see the finished image in my head. Not just at the point of exposure, but all the way through to presentation (after post processing).

When I am ready, my first thought goes to subject/background interplay. Do I want the subject to be a part of the world or separate from it? This helps me determine lens selection. Short lenses put my subject in the scene, long lenses put the subject in front of the scene.

Lens selection made, I then have to understand what that will do to my DoF. Depth of Field is the first technical issue I believe we must decide first. Shutter speed can be crucial on some occasions, but that is not often in my kind of photography.

After DoF, I begin to compose the scene and make sure of all the elements within it. This examination – the ‘sketching’ part I will usually do without any lighting. Just raw image on screen to help me determine the exact point of the camera.

Once that is decided, I build my lighting. From a simple bounce card to a complex, multi-strobe shot, I build it in the place I have chosen, with the parameters I have chosen to help guide me. One light at a time, starting with the main, and finishing with any specials I may want on the background. Cutters, scrims, cukis and more are then introduced.

At that point I am ready to begin the shoot, fairly confident that I will get the image I saw in my head before I even reached for my camera.

Reply

    Anna

    Don,

    Wowwwwwwww thank you so much for taking the time to write such a complete and comprehensive response to this. It covers all basis (and angles excuse the pun).

    It’s fascinating to see the step by step thought process laid out in this way. Yes, you totally understood that we meant about from taking the photo onwards, but the thought process before, and the way you pre-visualise it is definitely an another interesting discussion for another day. I think that with your experience visualisation is something that comes a lot easier, I have tried to work in this way but often fail as I think with my hands, so need items in my hands to play with. How do you see people you teach building up this knowledge?

    I loved reading that you came to the lighting once everything else was built, that was a lovely moment. You work from the story first and I love that you back it up with the technical tools after.

    Anna

    Reply

Tammy

I think that many of the story-telling elements (colors, symbols, etc.) are very much a cultural thing. A color, for example, can have different “meanings” depending on the culture.

I have become more and more aware of telling a story in my images. I found that some of my “creative” images lacked something. It turns out, it was the story. I have tried sketching image ideas, but more often than not, I go through a shot in my head (sometimes for several days), from all different angles. I jot down anything I need to remember, like getting certain props.

When I actually set up the shot – a commercial product shot – the first thing I do is place the product where I want it (initially, anyhow). Then I need to choose my lens (camera choice isn’t difficult, as I only shoot product with my DSLR). Do I want a shallow of deep depth of field? How much of the product is to be in focus (usually all of it).

Then I decide on the angle: High? Low? Straight on? Are there details of the product that limit my choice of angle? (like a detail on the top of a perfume bottle or something).

If props are to be added, I add them one at a time, until I get the “scene” as I want it. During this phase, I may even have moved the Product a couple of times to better suit the scene. Then I sticky-tack things in place as necessary.

Unless the light was one of the actual elements of the scene (like the shaft of light is in your meat/pantry image), I now consider the lighting. I don’t have many lights, so my lighting is usually fairly simple, and I work with lots of reflectors.

The shot itself takes no time at all…usually. I spend LOTS of time setting things up, checking details, wrinkles, dust, etc. before I get to the real shooting. I do take shots during the setup, to see how it looks on a “flat screen”. Viewing a scene with your own eyes – in 3D – it might look wonderful, but translated to the 2D flatness of a computer screen, you might lose something. I do that on location as well. I will close one eye to see things “flatly”. It can change a scene drastically.

I shoot with the intent of having to do as little post-processing as possible. Unless I am doing a composite, I usually only need to do minor adjustments and then add a bit of contrast “pop”…and I am finished!

Reply

    Anna

    Tammy,

    This type of insight is just amazing, I love that you dove straight in there and gave such an insightful process review.

    Yes! The colour is as you said a very cultural element, we didn’t discuss that area and perhaps we ought to address it as being a very vital part of the story. Great catch!

    I love that you go through the story in your head first, so that is your base. Similarly I put the product in place and move it around a fair bit to start with.

    It made me smile that you too line up prop ideas first, test them with the product to see if they work its a great way of seeing them all in the set. I like those moments when serendipity happens, and you see something there that you couldn’t have imagined.

    Do you think your post process time will increase as you progress as a photographer or decrease?

    Anna

    Reply



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